Toning down DMR

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Loki on 21/2/2013, 07:50

What a coincidence! The girl in your picture looks almost the same as Bieber and even their names are similar.

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Lothar Axe on 21/2/2013, 14:46

If the game works I can try testing.

Edit:
Got lots of errors and didn't worked.

How to play now? Shocked

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 25/2/2013, 12:42

I don't know, RO doesn't work on my computer neither, Lothar x_X;

Until I can fix that, I just can't provide support neither... to the files in the website, despite the fact that they seemed to work just fine in the past O_O;

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Lothar Axe on 25/2/2013, 17:33

I seriously wanna play, anyone has it working? I have Windows 8 x64 (hope this isn't a problem).
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Loki on 25/2/2013, 18:08

I wouldn't be of much help here. Last thing I did anything to my MouRO folder was 2 years ago.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by serveriskill? on 10/11/2013, 21:15

rather than removing it just tone down the negative effects of stacking status (str/agi/vit/int/dex/luk specially str and int). or even better use a mix of both, leave a cap(that can be still passed but will take sick ammount of stacking) and tone down the DMR.

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Lothar Axe on 10/11/2013, 23:34

If the point of DMR is removing those simple overpowered builds, then we should first ask if people actually like/want simple overpowered things, or they want complex things but complexity isn't worth achieving.

What I mean is: Let's say you make a build that you use only a single skill, and that thing is enough. Do you do that because it's literally the most effective way? Or cause you're just lazy to use anything more complex?
 
If people just want a dumb gameplay cause they are lazy, then this ends with removing DMR.
Otherwise, this starts with removing DMR and ends with fixing/buffing skills/stats relations. Complexity is only worth with interaction and synergy, why put more pieces in a system when you can do the same thing with a single one? That's the point of this problem.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by serveriskill? on 11/11/2013, 00:47

hmmm complex indeed, even more complex without some real testing Razz, what i really want is just tone it down a little, not just enable some dumb playing.

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 11/11/2013, 09:31

DMR, good intentions aside, straight up punishes you for trying to game the system.

For how badly balanced it's been in most incarnations, pre-renewal vanilla RO had stat stacking "fixed" by ensuring everyone was reliant on three or more stats, with the notable exceptions of a few builds which also happen to be underpowered in most situations (Bow Sniper, MR Paladin, healbot Priest).

That sort of thing would be cool in MouRO but also extremely time consuming, and I'm under the impression Skotlex dedicates zero seconds a month to this server nowadays.

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 11/11/2013, 16:27

I thought most of the problems derived from DMR or the like, were really related to stats having negative effects on your build. The traditional problem is quite simple: letting stats work constructively means that low level characters just cannot have high ASPD or other stat-related bonuses because even if they fully invested in a single stat, it's just a low number.

I was thinking on how Guild Wars handles this: your bonus is acquired by comparing your current value to your level. For instance, a low level character could have high critical rate if their precision was high "in relation" to their current level.

So, I could apply something like that to things like walking speed or aspd bonuses. Str would not reduce these things, but you'd need to stack up in agi in order to have the bonuses. Perhaps the base could be something like "1agi/per level" to have default bonus, and anything higher than that would improve them.

Granted, that's just an idea. Though I do want to change the whole "raising this stats makes me worse at something else" mechanic that mou has.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 11/11/2013, 16:42

I know this isn't the crazy suggestions thread, but here's an idea :

You know how you have the auto-leveler for PVP and WoE? The one that gives you level 150 stats based on your base stats?

Have an auto-leveler for PVE. Give characters the standard 48 point spread from chargen when they reset, auto-level when they leave the level eater/reset NPC building, THEN you can compare the stats to the level. Or go further and just don't give stat points on level up - you have that 999111 spread (or something similar) and that defines entirely how effective you are.

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 12/11/2013, 15:50

Hmm..... HMM.... that would be very weird indeed.

If I got you right, and I hope I did, I think your idea, Fruit, is to have all players, everywhere, be always at level 150, just that their stats are extra-polated and they need to go into the right room to reset and set their stats properly?

No wait... that can't be. It'd be awesome since you can now party with anybody, anywhere, but now the problem is the exp-tables: you'd be power-levelling by just defeating L150 monsters. Though, I could use the exp table for your bumped level instead of the real one, but then levelling would mean doing the whole L150 bar 149 times...

No.. I don't think it'd work, at least the way I understood it. Or what was your suggestion about, Fruit? I might have had misunderstood.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 12/11/2013, 15:58

Might've been a bit confusing, I apologize.

You know the temporary deleveler? You know how he drags your stats down to what they'd be at level X? Also related, the WoE upleveler, where you get your Lv150 stats in a similar spread to your current one?

The player picks their stats at level 1. Say, 9 STR, 9 INT, 9 DEX, 1 rest. As you level up (or after you leave the reset room), the game automatically allocates stats based on the spread you chose : you'd get 30% of your points in STR, 30% INT, 30% DEX, 3% each of the rest. Or you could dump it all in STR and have the game auto-allocate most of your points into STR and nothing else.

You know, kinda like Mou already does in PVP if you're below 150! If you're meant to put 1 point in each stat you use per level just to follow the curve, might as well automate it.

The other option is to never increase stats at all. Massively improve stats and then modify the stat-increasing items and buffs so they don't snap the game in half. That way your stat spread matters from level 1 to level 150, DMR isn't an issue and it simplifies a frankly complicated as hell mechanic (basic stat allocation!) in Mou.

In that sense, levels just give you hit, flee, base attack/MATK and HP/SP.

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 13/11/2013, 16:27

I understand now, but that probably wouldn't be very handy in practice, Fruit.

At first, yes it would help to just determine the ratio of your stats and let the auto-leveller distribute your stats as you want. However, what I've noticed is that even a stat-heavy build, at some point determines that the cost is not worth it to keep bumping your favourite stat, and then they just start raising other stats. So, for instance, even if you were a 90% agi, 10% everything else build, at some point, maybe L100 or so, you'd stop caring about agi and start investing in other stats. This could be done in this proposed method by resetting stats... but I wonder, would people actually benefit from that, rather than allocating stats manually as they level?
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Re: Toning down DMR

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