Toning down DMR

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Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 1/11/2012, 09:33

Or would it be best to remove it all together?

The concept of "Diminishing Marginal Returns" was added to the server back when the best way to own everything was to have a Gunslinger with 5 General Turtle carded weapons (+20% damage x 5 = pwnage). The other reason it was added was having people with a shield with two Thara frog cards (or the like) for a massive 60% damage reduction.

The idea was that, if just stacking the same card became progressively less useful, this would encourage players to try mixing cards instead of focusing on a single aspect (in the same way that the cost to raise a single stat keeps rising the higher it goes).

Frankly, I like the idea behind DMR. The problem is for people who min-max everything and have no idea how an additional "20% damage" actually performs.

An easy, if somewhat lazy, alternative is to have hard caps into place instead of DMR. For example, if the max resist bonus is 50%, using two Thara cards would mean that you are missing out on 1/3rd of the usefulness of the second card.

Adding a chart on the website may not be such an easy thing, because there are three equations that make up the DMR functions, and it isn't always intuitive how they work (for instance, the Critical/Lucky Dodge DMR is not DMR(Luk*3), but DMR(Luk*30)/10). So even if the data is there, players would be unable to understand it without some massive amounts of extra documentation. Not to mention, the equation itself would not be an easy thing to understand, the best you can do is either show a graph (which would be hard to use) or to give players a spreadsheet with the values for them to look up manually.

I suppose we might end up going the route of adding documentation to the website, but how useful will that be? Any other suggestions on how to best deal with this?
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Failure on 1/11/2012, 20:32


I don't have enough time to make a properly well constructed post, but I have to point out...

Skotlex wrote:(for instance, the Critical/Lucky Dodge DMR is not DMR(Luk*3), but DMR(Luk*30)/10)

...Is there even a difference here? What is the point of multiplying by thirty if you're going to divide by ten?

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 2/11/2012, 10:11

Because the DMR function uses values of four digits, so Luk*3 would get no perceivable reduction at all and allow Critical/Lucky-Dodge Rates that go above 100.
By multiplying by 10, then the DMR function will cap it around ~700 which then converts itself to 70% critical/lucky dodge.

This kind of conversion is sometimes needed for a few other mechanics, which is why just giving you guys the equation/curves is insufficient to understand how it works :S

Mou's internal mechanics are quite complex and at times math heavy xP
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by D4edalus on 13/12/2012, 02:23

this is late.

don't.

kthx.

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 13/12/2012, 12:23

It seems to be. At this rate, it makes one wonder if wouldn't it just be better to kill the server xD

Or a more realistic thing would be to just go back to eAthena-based MouRO, to apply any last-minute balancing changes required in the recent past, and then let it be a nice, ghost-town server T_T The effort required to convert to rA just seems pointless currently Sad
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by bombxhead on 18/12/2012, 04:20

[ i didn't post anything when i saw this because . . . i don't understand crap about anything, so there's not really much i can say abouth rebalancing and i coudn't even understand what you said in the post so . . . ]
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Vitriol on 18/12/2012, 04:53

bombxhead wrote:i coudn't even understand what you said
bombxhead wrote:[ i can't even start to understand what the vuk you people are talking about lol ]


that seems to always be the case with you; we just assume it to be the case by default. so there is no need to tell us when you don't understand something -we already know
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by bombxhead on 19/12/2012, 05:12

Vitriol wrote:
bombxhead wrote:i coudn't even understand what you said
bombxhead wrote:[ i can't even start to understand what the vuk you people are talking about lol ]


that seems to always be the case with you; we just assume it to be the case by default. so there is no need to tell us when you don't understand something -we already know
[ ok nice that this is clear xD ]
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Loki on 20/12/2012, 09:51

Remove it all together and see how it goes?
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 20/12/2012, 11:45

Uh... I sort of doubt "testing" things will work, because... lack of players xD

I can change things based on what knowledge there was back of when there were still players, but right now "wait and see" is not a very wise path to follow, I'd say :/
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Loki on 25/12/2012, 09:27

That's true though, guess we're at a stalemate unless we have volunteers.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Rogem on 10/1/2013, 21:26

Voluntaars? Very Happy

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Loki on 11/1/2013, 12:25

You'll have to wait for Skot's reply. He's always busy.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 18/1/2013, 13:25

Volunteers for that? Testing a change? But, having a single person test a change is... not quite gonna do it. Razz

Ah, time, such an elusive resource... I miss ya. >_<
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by to3phu on 19/1/2013, 05:39

lol what a shame
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Vitriol on 19/1/2013, 21:57

tophu will obviously be willing to help (he doesn't have anything better to do)
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Loki on 13/2/2013, 11:43

Tofu has other games to play.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Vitriol on 16/2/2013, 03:57

like WoW?
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Loki on 18/2/2013, 17:05

No idea.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Vitriol on 18/2/2013, 20:16

his hannah montana love doll waifu?
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Loki on 19/2/2013, 09:00

Close enough.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Vitriol on 20/2/2013, 02:47

well personally, i prefer justina bieber

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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Loki on 21/2/2013, 07:50

What a coincidence! The girl in your picture looks almost the same as Bieber and even their names are similar.
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Lothar Axe on 21/2/2013, 14:46

If the game works I can try testing.

Edit:
Got lots of errors and didn't worked.

How to play now? Shocked
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Re: Toning down DMR

Post by Skotlex on 25/2/2013, 12:42

I don't know, RO doesn't work on my computer neither, Lothar x_X;

Until I can fix that, I just can't provide support neither... to the files in the website, despite the fact that they seemed to work just fine in the past O_O;
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Re: Toning down DMR

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