Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Loki on 9/10/2012, 06:58

Vitriol wrote:
alloyc wrote:its very common for monsters of the same class to be on the same map so they all mob u like 3-5 elder willows who happen to hav lvl 5 firebolt =.=;
sumthin closer to a 3% chance for all monsters to support as opposed to 100% would be a huge difference starting out at low diffs and most higher lvl ppl usually hit evrythin in sight when they atk >.>
your build must really, really suck

Have to agree on this one, I make sure I kill fast before I get mobbed.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by alloyc on 9/10/2012, 21:08

if ur build works w/o any gear then i would say its a good build >.> when im fully carded and 100+ on my linker and other classes i do just fine but i shouldn b rushing to my ideal carded equips the moment i start a new char =-=; that feels like cheatin stacking ghost 2 or holy 2/3 right off the bat with a ton of neutral resist etc =.=; evrythin gets easy once u kno wut 2 get but thats pro world lol u shouldn hav to kno that kinda stuff at lvl 10 ._.;;

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 9/10/2012, 21:50

alloyc wrote:if ur build works w/o any gear then i would say its a good build >.> when im fully carded and 100+ on my linker and other classes i do just fine but i shouldn b rushing to my ideal carded equips the moment i start a new char =-=; that feels like cheatin stacking ghost 2 or holy 2/3 right off the bat with a ton of neutral resist etc =.=; evrythin gets easy once u kno wut 2 get but thats pro world lol u shouldn hav to kno that kinda stuff at lvl 10 ._.;;

i have trouble understanding why someone would spend so much time at level 10
also, i have leveled all first classes in training ground past level 30 without 'pro world' gear
you
are
doing
something
wrong

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by alloyc on 9/10/2012, 22:15

i hit 2nd job but for sumthin like a monk life rly sux as an acolyte >_> and it was ok with porings but after that i was just weak and dyin a lot =.=; the whole mobbing thing without being able 2 go bak 2 earlier training grounds left my monk dyin a lot

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Failure on 9/10/2012, 22:49

Vitriol wrote:your build must really, really suck
Loki wrote:Have to agree on this one, I make sure I kill fast before I get mobbed.
Vitriol wrote:i have trouble understanding why someone would spend so much time at level 10
also, i have leveled all first classes in training ground past level 30 without 'pro world' gear
you are doing something wrong


At some point either of you could probably start asking what alloyc's build is to help figure out what's being "done wrong". After all, their suggestions and problems are coming from a combination of inexperience and apparently not being as well-versed in gameplay. Even better, we can analyze why this person is having the problem to begin with to better the server overall. But I'm sure that takes effort, and why do that when you can both be complete assholes and shit on them for absolutely no reason?
Not that I'd expect vitriol to do anything other than be a shitty and worthless poster, but Loki doesn't have an excuse and can fuck off.


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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 9/10/2012, 22:56



The problem, of course, is that the Newbie Grounds are just... subpar. And amusingly, a newbie trap (other than the helpful text [which I'm sure is actually sort of outdated by now]).

Why would you ever level there when some maps like Izlude Fields or the southern Morroc Fields are easier, less mobby and end up giving more EXP per hour because you're not wasting time repositioning and healing during/after every fight?

Also, I sort of suggested Alloy stacks VIT until reality collapses, but I'm figuring it either doesn't work as well as it used to or he didn't try it. I'd love to hear Vit's or Loki's suggestions, though.

Especially Loki since he actually knows how to play this game, whereas I strongly suspect Vitriol is this server's equivalent to that guy every guild in vanilla RO has who thinks he knows everything because he has played this game for years but, at the end of the day, his Sidewinder Katar ASPD SinX is just out of touch with reality.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Crazy Toni on 9/10/2012, 23:44


Why, back in my days i put diff to low 30s and went 1 west of geffen to lvl my newbies on pupas and fabres, it worked alright.
Of course diff system got changed to some degree so your results may vary nowdays.

Oh and try to get magnum break card, alloyc, it gives somewhat weak-ish aoe skill to use and it helps somewhat.
And i think we're going bit offtopic here, peoples.
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Failure on 9/10/2012, 23:56

Crazy Toni wrote:[von karma]
And i think we're going bit offtopic here, peoples.




If you look at the original post, the entire reason for this thread is that @diff wouldn't go easy enough for alloyc, and they were having trouble with the training grounds.

Therefore, if we can address either a problem with alloyc's playstyle, a fundamental issue with the training grounds, or both, we can see if the suggestion regarding @diff still holds merit.


So far, we have been entirely on topic. Some more productive than others, of course.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 10/10/2012, 00:12

Fruit Pie~ wrote:
Also, I sort of suggested Alloy stacks VIT until reality collapses, but I'm figuring it either doesn't work as well as it used to or he didn't try it. I'd love to hear Vit's or Loki's suggestions, though.
i suggest a support priest bot.
or you could just go play wow. much easier and more ppl to play with
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 10/10/2012, 00:15

Vitriol wrote:
Fruit Pie~ wrote:
Also, I sort of suggested Alloy stacks VIT until reality collapses, but I'm figuring it either doesn't work as well as it used to or he didn't try it. I'd love to hear Vit's or Loki's suggestions, though.
i suggest a support priest bot.
or you could just go play wow. much easier and more ppl to play with


So your suggestion is basically... "your shit is fucked, use third-party programs or get the fuck out".

I like how you think! You really ARE that one SinX in every guild. Congratulations. Slow clap.

So is anyone who knows what they're saying up for actual, useful suggestions?

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 10/10/2012, 00:25

Fruit Pie~ wrote:
Vitriol wrote:
Fruit Pie~ wrote:
Also, I sort of suggested Alloy stacks VIT until reality collapses, but I'm figuring it either doesn't work as well as it used to or he didn't try it. I'd love to hear Vit's or Loki's suggestions, though.
i suggest a support priest bot.
or you could just go play wow. much easier and more ppl to play with

So your suggestion is basically... "your shit is fucked, use third-party programs or get the fuck out".

I like how you think! You really ARE that one SinX in every guild. Congratulations. Slow clap.

So is anyone who knows what they're saying up for actual, useful suggestions?
yup, and it works too
besides, he obviously isnt going to bother reading about all the stat changes on the website (which are outdated anyway) so he will never have a minimaxed build; he is a casual player, his build will suck the shit off of a goats balls.
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 10/10/2012, 00:29

Failure wrote:
Not that I'd expect vitriol to do anything other than be a shitty and worthless poster, but Loki doesn't have an excuse and can fuck off.
that means that i am welcome to stay, right?
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Failure on 10/10/2012, 00:40

Vitriol wrote:besides, he obviously isnt going to bother reading about all the stat changes on the website (which are outdated anyway) so he will never have a minimaxed build; he is a casual player, his build will suck the shit off of a goats balls.

You immediately assume our friend here isn't going to read the information they really shouldn't be reading anyway, used that to justify giving up before you even started, finally insulting them for good measure.

Posting bannable-elsewhere garbage is pretty standard for you, though: I shouldn't be surprised you'd apply it to drive off the one person probably still playing MouRO. At least with your drag-queen gimmick I can recognize when to scroll past.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Lothar Axe on 10/10/2012, 00:44

Vitriol wrote:
yup, and it works too
besides, he obviously isnt going to bother reading about all the stat changes on the website (which are outdated anyway) so he will never have a minimaxed build; he is a casual player, his build will suck the shit off of a goats balls.


Botting? That shouldn't even be an option.
I suggest you to actually take this discussion seriously and honor Alloyc's effort, as he isn't a troll as you are.
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by alloyc on 10/10/2012, 00:50

i played when ant hell would instantly respawn all the eggs at the front evry time u walked out and in and u could set the diff to 100 with a high lvl char and leech insane amounts of exp to fight sumthin that didn fight back >.> the only reason u needed a high lvl char was to fight the 1 or 2 ants that decided to poke around and put up a fight

the vit stacking prob works cuz i hav low base stat on my 100+ chars >.>
and having any support char that isnt new feels like leeching lol
but im guessing things dont die quickly enuf to avoid getting mobbed if ur essentially focusing on a tank build =/ u make up the dps wit cards/gear later on but when ur still experimenting early on ur kinda broke and guessing wit ur life savings =.=;

100jlvls as a high aco or a tk kid is tough for weak chars that need to specialize different for ther job changes >.>
i wouldn mind having max high priest jlvl 150 by blvl 20 cuz i could fly thru all that stuff and not worry abt it xD blvl rates could b 30x lower and i'd b fine if jlvl rates wer super high o.o spamming lvl 10 lord of vermillion for 300 dmg total while evry1 else is shooting out 150dmg sonic blows and 1k ashuras trying to take down a lvl 30 mvp would b intrestin o.o if we do this tho server wipe or reset evry1 to 1/1 =D! like when rAthena hits 0.0

u arent gunna invest heavily to gear up as a high priest when ur going champ when ur poor o.0 and the majority of lvling i did when i was poor was in server parties with 1 or 2 vets always carrying the entire party >.> u shouldn need to rely on server parties tho =/

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by to3phu on 10/10/2012, 01:04




I believe each map has a minimum @diff, so even with a @diff 1 it still be like 10. (I'm not all too sure about this).

Since you're having soo much trouble have some tips

Some cheap cards you can use are:
Firelock, great str, and hp bonus
Flame skull crap load of status effect on hit stack 2 to get 10% chance on something landing. Even if you're a 2handed wizzy this still useful than most crappy weapon card for mages.
Viata card for the mage class SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE. Just get a cheap accessory.

For stats build, personally I don't get vit till later levels, and I prefer high agi/luk (depending on your class) I tend to keep my primary stats low and still able to dish out damage. A bit more advance in the game..but not completely impossible to pull off. I hope your option 3 (melee skill) is always on, auto target your melee skill on w.e you're focusing. For optional 2, (range spells) depends on your play style, it will be hard to kite if you're chasing down.

Investing a max out smith is worth it. Smith is so easy to farm too, toss in some mimic cards, and Smith card set, and watch the money pour down, not to mention you can find random goodies. Then there's the free refining which is essential to any leetness. If you don't know what to refine first, it should be weapon first, and then the next HIGHEST BASE DEF, not bonus but the def the armor gives. It's not a set rate, but a percentage multiplier per level, and if it fails, no worries you won't lose it, cept maybe a level refinement. On that note since it's by a percentage refining an armor with 0 def will grant nothing(0 times anything is too game breaking). Crafting is OP can be an "end game" weapon, with its nice elemental bonus, stronger than their counter parts (with 2 star crumbs), and even have a hidden slot.

Use potion pitcher, Skot let us use it for a reason. Hot key level 4, and when you need sp just scroll wheel up and click away. If you can afford it at this point, buy pizza from the pizza boy, right after the room where you start anew. Pizza girl is for sp.

I have more points, ask if you need any


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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 10/10/2012, 01:06

Failure wrote:
Vitriol wrote:besides, he obviously isnt going to bother reading about all the stat changes on the website (which are outdated anyway) so he will never have a minimaxed build; he is a casual player, his build will suck the shit off of a goats balls.

You immediately assume our friend here isn't going to read the information they really shouldn't be reading anyway, used that to justify giving up before you even started, finally insulting them for good measure.

Posting bannable-elsewhere garbage is pretty standard for you, though: I shouldn't be surprised you'd apply it to drive off the one person probably still playing MouRO. At least with your drag-queen gimmick I can recognize when to scroll past.
i did not say that he should not read the info, i said that (parts of ) it is outdated.
and it is a simple fact that if someone does not bother reading the documentation, they cannot be expected to have a decent build. unless you suggest that skot make the stat system closer to vanilla. but the entire server is predicated on being different; skot would not keep this server running if it was the same as all the others


fact: skot will not revert the stat system to vanilla
fact: newbs will continue to make shitty builds unless they bother to read the documentation on the stat system
fact: documentation = not a casual server, which was probably the major selling point for the newbie since he obviously did not bother to read the documentation
fact: wow is much more casual than mouro. even skot would recommend guild wars 2 over his own server.
sooooo, my point remains undisputed
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Failure on 10/10/2012, 01:15


This is actually a decent enough post that I'll rip it apart.

Vitriol wrote:i did not say that he should not read the info, i said that (parts of ) it is outdated.
Wrong, read my post (and your own post) more closely. You said "he obviously isn't going to read the info". I said you thought he wasn't going to read the info. At no point did I say that you said that. (This sounds like a lot of double-talk, so to make it more clear: I never said what you claim I'm saying.)
Vitriol wrote:and it is a simple fact that if someone does not bother reading the documentation, they cannot be expected to have a decent build.
You state in your own post that the documentation is outdated. Why would reading documentation that's not complete, outdated, and outright lies to you an improvement over reading nothing at all? Also, you continue the bad faith argument that alloyc hasn't read the docs for some reason.
Vitriol wrote:unless you suggest that skot make the stat system closer to vanilla. but the entire server is predicated on being different; skot would not keep this server running if it was the same as all the others
Nobody is asking for this: being different is fine, but Mou does it in very confusing and poorly-documented ways. We wouldn't have half the problems we had if there were more posts like to3phu's. Read it in its entirety and tell me how much of it is intuitive, common sense. Essentially, we're looking for good game design.
Vitriol wrote:sooooo, my point remains undisputed
Your point is almost entirely on a bad-faith argument about alloyc. There is nothing to dispute about it because it's completely fictional and not even a point: simply a personal attack.


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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 10/10/2012, 01:16

Lothar Axe wrote:
Vitriol wrote:
yup, and it works too
besides, he obviously isnt going to bother reading about all the stat changes on the website (which are outdated anyway) so he will never have a minimaxed build; he is a casual player, his build will suck the shit off of a goats balls.


Botting? That shouldn't even be an option.
I suggest you to actually take this discussion seriously and honor Alloyc's effort, as he isn't a troll as you are.
oh, but i take this very seriously
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by to3phu on 10/10/2012, 01:16

Vitriol wrote:
fact: newbs will continue to make shitty builds unless they bother to read the documentation on the stat system



I never read it, cept for elemental chart mixing.
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 10/10/2012, 01:16

to3phu wrote:Gumshoe Facts.


This is it. This is a good post. Tofu knows what he's saying, and those are all solid newbie hints (and also entirely not obvious - AGI/LUK! Bizarre cards! Upgrades being actually useful!).

If the server's mechanics are going to be this obtuse and hard to swallow at first, this is the sort of post we need.

EDIT : And you learn something every day, too - I didn't know LUK affected Flame Skull. I thought it only worked on spell autocast cards.


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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Lothar Axe on 10/10/2012, 01:18

Vitriol wrote:
fact: wow is much more casual than mouro. even skot would recommend guild wars 2 over his own server.
sooooo, my point remains undisputed



Then why is this server still up?
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 10/10/2012, 01:23

to3phu wrote:
Vitriol wrote:
fact: newbs will continue to make shitty builds unless they bother to read the documentation on the stat system



I never read it, cept for elemental chart mixing.
that is because you have already memorized the relationships between the stats. how would you expect to make a good build if you did not know the relationship between dex and int for cast time and matk? if you didnt know about dmr?
youd waste precious points in vain trying to cancel out dmr


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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 10/10/2012, 01:24

Lothar Axe wrote:
Vitriol wrote:
fact: wow is much more casual than mouro. even skot would recommend guild wars 2 over his own server.
sooooo, my point remains undisputed



Then why is this server still up?
refer to the paragraph above, genius
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by to3phu on 10/10/2012, 01:32

Vitriol wrote:
to3phu wrote:
Vitriol wrote:
fact: newbs will continue to make shitty builds unless they bother to read the documentation on the stat system



I never read it, cept for elemental chart mixing.
that is because you have already memorized the relationships between the stats. how would you expect to make a good build if you did not know the relationship between dex and int for cast time and matk? if you didnt know about dmr?
youd waste precious points in vain trying to cancel out dmr


Well, don't we all start somewhere. But what you're saying that it's an undeniable fate that unless you read the game inside and out you'll never get anywhere. I'm sure our man here skot, has put down what each stats does the the training ground..or I have hope. (I never in my life have tried it)
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Lothar Axe on 10/10/2012, 01:33

Vitriol wrote:refer to the paragraph above, genius


That doesn't answers my question.
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Failure on 10/10/2012, 01:36

to3phu wrote:[gumshoe]
Well, don't we all start somewhere. But what you're saying that it's an undeniable fate that unless you read the game inside and out you'll never get anywhere. I'm sure our man here skot, has put down what each stats does the the training ground..or I have hope. (I never in my life have tried it)


Detective, try not to repeatedly quote your own, or other people's faces when quoting. It leads to even more images than this thread already has. Remember your next salary evaluation is coming soon.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 10/10/2012, 01:37

Failure wrote:
This is actually a decent enough post that I'll rip it apart.

Vitriol wrote:i did not say that he should not read the info, i said that (parts of ) it is outdated.
Wrong, read my post (and your own post) more closely. You said "he obviously isn't going to read the info". I said you thought he wasn't going to read the info. At no point did I say that you said that. (This sounds like a lot of double-talk, so to make it more clear: I never said what you claim I'm saying.)
Vitriol wrote:and it is a simple fact that if someone does not bother reading the documentation, they cannot be expected to have a decent build.
You state in your own post that the documentation is outdated. Why would reading documentation that's not complete, outdated, and outright lies to you an improvement over reading nothing at all? Also, you continue the bad faith argument that alloyc hasn't read the docs for some reason.
Vitriol wrote:unless you suggest that skot make the stat system closer to vanilla. but the entire server is predicated on being different; skot would not keep this server running if it was the same as all the others
Nobody is asking for this: being different is fine, but Mou does it in very confusing and poorly-documented ways. We wouldn't have half the problems we had if there were more posts like to3phu's. Read it in its entirety and tell me how much of it is intuitive, common sense. Essentially, we're looking for good game design.
Vitriol wrote:sooooo, my point remains undisputed
Your point is almost entirely on a bad-faith argument about alloyc. There is nothing to dispute about it because it's completely fictional and not even a point: simply a personal attack.
well, then you definitely said that he should not read the documentation
Spoiler:

You immediately assume our friend here isn't going to read the information they really shouldn't be reading anyway, used that to justify giving up before you even started, finally insulting them for good measure.

how do you expect someone to make a good build without knowing how the stats work? by blindly putting their points towards a vanilla build?
while parts of the documentation are outdated, not all of it is. its enough to get a decent build, which is more than you can get by not reading it.
and its not a personal attack. its a very reasonable assumption. if he is still fighting elder willows at diff 1 after 1 month and having trouble with even that, then he is definitely doing something wrong. and not just the equip. you could be fighting elder willows naked at level 30 and diff 1 and not have any trouble with a decent build. so obviously he is either exaggerating about the difficulty level, or his build is fucked up
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

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