Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

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Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by alloyc on 20/9/2012, 21:39

is ther a way to make lower diffs even easier than they currently are? @diff 1 isnt easy enuf for me to avoid dying w/ a new char >.> i kno once u build up sum resists u start feelin invincible but ur kinda a glass cannon til then >.>; and noobs usually dont instantly kno exactly wat they need to get >.>
i tried making a noob w/o stuff from my other chars and some classes are naturally harder early on =.=;

make it so that u can go up OR down lvls in the training ground
so if ur ass gets kicked u'll b allowed to go bak a few
when ur starting off a lvl 5ish fire bolt destroys like half ur hp and ur broke and outta sp and u kinda just hav to accept that u shouldn b fighting elder willows if u wanna stay alive >.>
i made it to like lvl 4 of the training ground and wish i stayed in lvl 1 cuz im dyin so much Dx

the server is designed to be amazing for large groups of ppl
but it could b a lil friendlier on the solo side so teh noobs stay longer >.>

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Skotlex on 21/9/2012, 08:39

O_O Really? I had no idea it could be that hard on the lower levels. I thought the pupa-armour you get allows you plenty of HP.

Anyway, if you are already at level 4 of the training grounds, that means you should have your base level around 30 or higher, right? You should be able to just go anywhere else and get levels from there. @diff 1 will give extremely low level monsters if you go to the rookie/novice dungeons (e.g.: prontera sewers, or even payon dungeon).
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Loki on 21/9/2012, 12:19

Pupa card is god tier
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Lothar Axe on 21/9/2012, 17:59

Well I have to agree on that. Training Grounds is scary, but since I'm used to it and to the server I ignore when I die and just keep pushing on. After Training Grounds everything gets better, but until then you get a harsh reception.

I think fixing that kind of stuff with diff is a bit painfull... I would "increase the party members" by giving them a free mercenary to help players early on instead. Of course since they would get a bit used to it and wouldn't be able to see these mercs anymore, or at least often, I would also create an NPC to sell Mercenary Contracts.

This is not a suggestion, this is just what I would do, cause I don't suggest for free anymore fuck this.
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Loki on 22/9/2012, 11:00

It's still considered as a suggestion Loth.
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Lothar Axe on 22/9/2012, 14:46

I`ve failed miserably...
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 22/9/2012, 18:05

Vitriol wrote:
oh look, another of lothar's suggestions that i don't agree with!
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Skotlex on 24/9/2012, 11:39

Well, if the training grounds are a bit tough, wouldn't one logical solution be simply to remove the number of monster spawns in it?

Technically, even if you are thrown into the higher levels of the training grounds, with @diff 1 monsters should be low level. The only exception is if the monsters were already spawned and you have to kill a few of them for the new level to trigger (or die a few times to make it trigger).
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 24/9/2012, 16:42

Vitriol wrote:
Vitriol wrote:
oh look, another of lothar's useless suggestions that i don't agree with!
fixed!
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 24/9/2012, 17:03

Skotlex wrote:Well, if the training grounds are a bit tough, wouldn't one logical solution be simply to remove the number of monster spawns in it?

Technically, even if you are thrown into the higher levels of the training grounds, with @diff 1 monsters should be low level. The only exception is if the monsters were already spawned and you have to kill a few of them for the new level to trigger (or die a few times to make it trigger).
imo the training grounds do not have enough spawns. it takes too long to walk over to the next monster and slows my levelling. also, the monsters always seems to spawn on the other side of the map (i kill all the ones on one side of the map until they spawn on the other side or move)
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 24/9/2012, 21:10

Vitriol wrote:Words.

I, too, want my Thief/Swordsman/Acolyte to be swamped by mobs in a supposedly safe leveling spot.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 24/9/2012, 21:42

you mean the 500 red pots was not enough? frequent health drops, heal scrolls, etc?
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 25/9/2012, 00:22

Vitriol wrote:you mean the 500 red pots was not enough? frequent health drops, heal scrolls, etc?
When you're surrouned by five or six Fabres equipped with the latest in single-target skills, you tend to die no matter what due to how damage works in Mou (higher than in Vanilla, so even at 50% damage max and counting a regen tick, you're still staring death in the eye). Thieves, Swordsmen and Acolytes are tough but can't kill the things fast enough and either aren't ranged or have piddling ranged capabilities.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 25/9/2012, 00:24

even at diff 1?
ohohohohohoh very funny
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 25/9/2012, 00:25

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 25/9/2012, 02:31

If you're going diff 1 you don't really care about the experience at all. It's there for skipping maps or catching pets, it seems, but whatever.

Diff 1 on the newbie maps just makes things less aggressive (they can't delevel further) so you have an easier time positioning yourself to avoid such mobs. Somehow I think covering every inch of the map in Porings would work against that.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 25/9/2012, 03:09

1 kill = how many level gains? after killing 1 poring, you are probably at least 10 levels higher than any mob on the first floor. youd overkill everything even on diff 1(unless you put all ur points into luck for some reason)
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 25/9/2012, 03:48

Fruit Pie~ wrote:covering every inch of the map in Porings would work against that.
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Skotlex on 25/9/2012, 09:27

The training grounds should be a "fair" (if not somewhat "easy") challenge since it's the very beginning of the game.

On the other hand, since MouRO used to be visited by RO veterans, that it was more challenging was actually a good thing because most people used to RO aren't used to the game being hard.

Vitriol, monsters do not spawn on your visible screen, that is why after a while you feel forced to cross the bridge to look for more. I think this is preferable to having monsters spawning close to you when you are already busy fighting another mob.
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 25/9/2012, 12:20

Vitriol wrote:More words.
Have you even been to the newbie maps? They're already relatively mobby. Like every other map in the game, since Skot balanced their spawn rates to be per map size (so Juperos has roughly the same amount of mobs as Louyang fields), and there's already like three or four mobs per screen. By how much would you increase that so it doesn't shit all over single-target DPS classes, considering all mobs have support and lower diff not only kills off most maps for decent EXP but removes only their aggressive tag, not their support tag?

EDIT : Unless something changed since I last played, of course.

Skot wrote:On the other hand, since MouRO used to be visited by RO veterans, that it was more challenging was actually a good thing because most people used to RO aren't used to the game being hard.
Hoo boy. Thanatos Tower, Thor's Volcano, Splendide Fields, Abbey 3 and Bio Labs 3 would ALL like to share something with you.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Loki on 25/9/2012, 15:20

Not sure if Vit is trolling or seriously giving a counter argument.

¬.¬
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 25/9/2012, 16:43

Fruit Pie~ wrote:
Vitriol wrote:More words.
Have you even been to the newbie maps? They're already relatively mobby. Like every other map in the game, since Skot balanced their spawn rates to be per map size (so Juperos has roughly the same amount of mobs as Louyang fields), and there's already like three or four mobs per screen. By how much would you increase that so it doesn't shit all over single-target DPS classes, considering all mobs have support and lower diff not only kills off most maps for decent EXP but removes only their aggressive tag, not their support tag?

EDIT : Unless something changed since I last played, of course.
so small maps = low spawn? thanks for proving my point!
btw, any single dps player who isnt retarded knows how to lure and kite without aggroing. also, im pretty sure that the mobs do not aggro so easily. i posted about it in the previous forum and skot fixed something about aggro in the training grounds
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 25/9/2012, 16:53

Vitriol wrote:
Fruit Pie~ wrote:
Vitriol wrote:More words.
Have you even been to the newbie maps? They're already relatively mobby. Like every other map in the game, since Skot balanced their spawn rates to be per map size (so Juperos has roughly the same amount of mobs as Louyang fields), and there's already like three or four mobs per screen. By how much would you increase that so it doesn't shit all over single-target DPS classes, considering all mobs have support and lower diff not only kills off most maps for decent EXP but removes only their aggressive tag, not their support tag?

EDIT : Unless something changed since I last played, of course.
so small maps = low spawn? thanks for proving my point!
btw, any single dps player who isnt retarded knows how to lure and kite without aggroing. also, im pretty sure that the mobs do not aggro so easily. i posted about it in the previous forum and skot fixed something about aggro in the training grounds
Small maps have the exact same spawn per screen, do you even read what I type.

Of course they're lower spawn, but something like Payon Cave will have the same overall DENSITY than, say, the earlier Thanatos floors. And the respawn is instant save for seal monsters, which are an entirely different beast anyway.

You go lure and kite those mobs with Supportive when there are more mobs on screen, then. When you're a low level melee class. Give it a shot.

What do you expect swordsmen to do, hope to god they can wield a Tomahawk? Do thieves use a range 5 bow to do it? Please share your secrets, I'm sure they work and are not terrible at all.

EDIT : Again, unless Skot changed it, mobs have Support for every mob in the game. So if you hit anything, everything else in range is going to swarm you.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Vitriol on 25/9/2012, 17:08

density is defined as the ratio of number of monsters
to walkable space (not to the overall map size). the training grounds has lots of walkable space, therefore the TG density is lower than that of payon caves.
considering that i have 3+ swordie classes, 4+acolytes, and at least 2+ of every other class which i made before skot fixed the support aggro, i know how easy it is. also, i am preeeetty sure that skot removed aggro from the training ground below a certain diff level. i posted about it in the old forums and he fixed it.
even if they do aggro, just bash them and pot. once again, unless you are retarded and decided to put all ur points into luck, then you can easily kill a mob of 5. acolyes can holy light them ans respec after levelling. thieves are easy too...
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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 25/9/2012, 17:28

Vitriol wrote:density is defined as the ratio of number of monsters
to walkable space (not to the overall map size). the training grounds has lots of walkable space, therefore the TG density is lower than that of payon caves.
considering that i have 3+ swordie classes, 4+acolytes, and at least 2+ of every other class which i made before skot fixed the support aggro, i know how easy it is. also, i am preeeetty sure that skot removed aggro from the training ground below a certain diff level. i posted about it in the old forums and he fixed it.
even if they do aggro, just bash them and pot. once again, unless you are retarded and decided to put all ur points into luck, then you can easily kill a mob of 5. acolyes can holy light them ans respec after levelling. thieves are easy too...
Congratulations for spending so much time playing on an empty server, I guess? I leveled Swordsmen and Acolytes too and you can't honestly tell me leveling a Magician or Archer early on isn't absurdly easier with the long range burst damage not triggering support and killing you instantly. (of course when you change to second class you actually get decent options/survivability across the board)

Also, those five mobs Fire Bolt you for 400 damage each and you die twice. It's like you don't even play MouRO! Mob burst starts out ridiculous and gets much, much lower as you go - said "retarded" full LUK build can actually mob a shit ton of stuff at Lv150.

Also also, trying to find the part of the site which talks about the mob density changes. I'm not entirely sure if it's by walkable space or by overall size. If it's by overall size it is, in fact, very dumb, especially considering eAthena has a walkable space calculator (IIRC).

EDIT : Except Hunters. Hunters get jack shit. Screw Hunters forever.

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Re: Regarding @diff, casualness, documentation, etc...

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