I believe it is time to close the server.

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I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Skotlex on 29/4/2014, 15:25

So...

After some weeks of dealing with other life duties, and trying out other MMOs (free, no less), I think it is time to let MouRO take a rest. I just don't have the motivation to keep working on the server, and it is not like there's a lack of other MMOs that people can try out (and many of them are even for free).

Seeing how I barely bother to attend to the forums, and how there's hardly anybody who logs in, then why continue to bother? Recently I got an email stating that dyndns will suspend its free services, meaning that the domain of mouro.dyndns-server.com (server address from the clientinfo) will no longer be accessible. I decided this was a good sign that perhaps it was time to retire the server.

Is there anybody that really cares for the continued survival of the server? The game has just outlived itself, it should be time to let it go.
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by TemporaryUser on 30/4/2014, 19:02

Hey Skotlex,

I've known you since your days at eAthena. I just happened to think of your server and am pleasantly surprised that you tried to make it last as long as it did!

What games will you be migrating to, if you don't mind my asking? Any games where you're "planning" to host or develop for? 

At the very least, one person saw your post, for what that's worth. =)

Cheers.

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Skotlex on 2/5/2014, 18:03

I think developing is now in the past for me, I am happy with just tinkering with my laptop /software to get it working. Game-fiddling is quite a niché, and despite it being quite fun when it was for the game I enjoyed playing, I do not have the same drive to go through this again (in fact, I want to spend my social time helping others through a quite different field rather than programming).

I met RO back when my only MMO experience was Diablo II, and I liked what I saw but didn't agree with so many of the game-design decisions... anyway, the story was written a few times in the past in the forums. Nowadays? If we talk about gaming, I've taken shelter in Guild Wars 2. Anet has shown to have game design philosophies that align very well to my own, and I've been thrilled for the most part with their direction (the recent muckup of traits being a rare example of them going wrong, which I hope they address before the ship sinks).

The other two MMOs I've tried, and which I still enjoy on occasion (and are absolutely free) are TERA and Aura Kingdom. TERA has some beautiful graphics (if a bit on the lewd side, though it gives a refreshing contrast to how "prude" GW2 feels in comparison), but the mechanics of almost everything else match those of an outdated MMO. Aura Kingdom has a much more anime feel, and it somehow reminds me of RO. I like many of the mechanics the game has going for it, its only real shortcomings are lack of open-world content (i.e.: absolutely no reason to party or ask for help outside of dungeon instances) and the lack of a level-downscaler (sure, you can help your friends, but one-shooting everything for them removes the fun, if you ask me). On the other hand, it is a more Korean-styled MMO, so the grinding is horrid for certain tasks (e.g.: trying to get to max level or fetching certain pets), though, on the upside, the higher-level dungeons can be a horrible pain in the neck if you want impossible challenges Smile

Anyway, time will tell. Perhaps game-companies in the future will take better directions and I won't even have to struggle to find an MMO just the way I like them (Gw2 being a prime example of how close to realization this is). If I were to go back to developing, I would had the levelling/difficulty system to apply on a more GW2 way (i.e.: your level is scaled to the area, difficulty adjusts skill level usages and frequency). But frankly, an MMO without people just isn't fun, and RO is showing its age, there's just no way to bring in new players with so many good (and free) alternatives; so it is best to retire it.
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Vitriol on 3/5/2014, 00:00

Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
LOL
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 4/5/2014, 16:24

Man, this is sad, but this plug should've been pulled a while ago.

On the subject of GW2, didn't you have to take lower level weapons so you wouldn't just one-shot everything in the Human starter area? =P It's not a very consistent game, no. (and I never catch you online)

"A bit on the lewd side"? Try "disgusting lolis EVERYWHERE". Jesus Christ that game. I still say you should've given WoW a shot, though. If nothing else I have the feeling you'd have liked dungeons/scenarios.

Anyway, if you ever read this message, I'd like to ask (again) what I've always wanted and figured you wouldn't care now since you're closing the server : Can I have the source code? =DDD

EDIT : Aura Kingdom is very good tho.

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by jellopy on 4/5/2014, 22:05

I'm a nobody who didn't even spend as much time on the server as I would have liked (for varying reasons I'm not comfortable sharing in a public space), but MouRO always held a special place in my heart as an illustration of the best sort of customization private servers could provide. RO was my first MMO and I still find myself returning to the game once in a while.

I'm going to second Fruit Pie here and ask for some form of release of MouRO's code. I'd love to be able to run a local server based on it and I think it'd be a great way to let your hard work live on. However, should you decide to keep everything private I fully respect your decision.

It's a shame MouRO never really caught on as I always believed there was a decent niche for it. But given the way things have turned out and everything else, I understand why you've decided to let the sun set on the project.

Best of wishes to you in the future and I'll always remember Mou as something special.

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Lothar Axe on 4/5/2014, 22:55

Been ages since I got in, and I wouldn't until I was told that Mou was going to rest or get 3rds.
It's sad that I couldn't see the 3rds applied, but it's even more sad to see Mou like this (though it's been like this for years?).

Guess it's time. Had great times in the server, but that's to become a memory, a good one.

But like Fruit and jellopy said, might be a good idea to give your work to someone else, it shouldn't be just trashed. Pass it on, who knows what happens.
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Skotlex on 5/5/2014, 21:33

Where would you guys want the source code available? It isn't really a big corporate secret so I don't really mind passing it along. I suppose I could sent it via email if it came to that. Though a public-repository could also do if there's more than one person interested in accessing it.

In hindsight, I am surprised that RO lasted for as long as it did: it is such an ancient game... the quests are non-existent (and of the most annoying grinding kind), the loot system encourages farming to no end. MouRO was fun because it was non-stop grinding in the sense of just fighting monsters over and over at a suitable difficulty level which kept the challenge going. But mindless fighting for hours? I can't actually enjoy doing that in any of the more modern MMOs.

I may have enjoyed WoW more, Fruit, I have seen my cousin play it. But there's no way I am investing myself in a game with a monthly cost model. If it ever changes that, then I would give it a second thought. As for Tera... the Elin are cute, or at least my female friends who tried the game used that as reason for using them (and at least the NA-censored Elins are much cuter than the lingerie wearing females of the other races Razz). Nevertheless, the graphics are beautiful and I enjoy the combat system with my warrior (mystic turned out to be quite boring outside a party).

If MouRO ever had a niche.. it'd probably be for some sort of fighting-game-online rather than an MMO. I wouldn't even call it a Street-Fighter-Online because the degree of skill required is basically... "spam the right skill as fast as you can" :PI now actually prefer skill cooldowns which make you think that skills shouldn't just be spammed, but used at the right moment instead.
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by jellopy on 5/5/2014, 21:52

To be honest I don't really know where the best place to stick it would be. I'd be fine with anything. :)I do agree with some sort of public distribution being best though, even if it was just via one of those file upload sites.

I think the thing that keeps bringing me back to RO is... it's sort of a comfort food game for me. It's been part of my life for so long that it's nice to just sit down and tool around. And the mindless grinding's calming in a way that it really isn't with most more modern MMOs, yeah. Plus I still appreciate the art style, all the sprites and music. And hats. Even though so many modern games have way better character customization I still love me some hats.

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by TemporaryUser on 6/5/2014, 18:00

I've never played MouRO before but I would love to be able to play it on my LAN by myself TBH. So I definitely would chime in with others that I would love to give it a shot if you'd be willing to make the code public. =)

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Fruit Pie~ on 6/5/2014, 21:15

Thirding the enjoyment of mindless grinding in RO, but also adding that I quite enjoy it in many other MMOs! Sometimes I just like to shut my brain down, kill monsters, explore dungeons and shoot the shit with my buddies online. It's why I gravitate towards less questy MMOs (or less questy stuff to do in questy MMOs ie PVP and dungeons in WoW).

Well, if you want you can e-mail the source to me and I'll host it for you. =D Would be my pleasure. I'll IM my e-mail to you if you're okay with it.

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Vitriol on 8/5/2014, 03:20

yeah! make the source code open source so that  other server admins can sell your hard earned work as "premium features" on their servers!
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Jammyhammy on 12/5/2014, 23:50

Oh drat. I was just about to play as well on Blazer. mouRO itself has been a really fun server to play on and off, during any break I get from my CS masters. Newer games have been a bit hard for me to get into, mostly due to the commitment some of them require (it seems I always reach the halfway point in a modern MMO and end up bailing because of not having time).

For the source code, it really depends on the difficulty of setting up the server I'd imagine, and if the server still requires a dedicated box. I know if I had more time myself and less projects to work on, I'd be willing to pick up on mouRO. Is there a place you can even make the code public? I was about to suggest throwing it up on Github or Bitbucket if licensing permits making it open like that.

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Skotlex on 13/5/2014, 19:31

I was thinking on where exactly to upload the code to. Despite the whole legality issue surrounding emulators, the emulator code itself (and its forks) should be fine. I can try uploading it somewhere and then see what happens.

Or I can let Fruit host it somewhere... either way will do. Running the server isn't really hard... it's no different from how eA itself was, so if you had experience with that, then you'd have no problem.

Been busy last week with university registrations and the like, so it took me a while to come reply :S

I think most MMOs have some way of just grinding monsters if that's what you enjoy. GW2 has dungeons (or pvp/wvw), Aura Kingdom has their own dungeons as well, Tera too (but forming a group in Tera can take forever because of the Tank/Healer/DPS trinity and the lack of tanks in that game).

Also, who cares about other server admins? RO is pretty much dead... if they can make their server better, then the more power to them.

Hmm.... I will look into bitbucket, I do not think git is user friendly enough (I prefer svn myself).
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Skotlex on 13/5/2014, 22:50

Okay... bitbucket is also git... so I decided to look around and I ended up picking CloudForge.

The project's page is at https://app.cloudforge.com/projects/234981 Svn and Git links are shown there. I didn't find any way to enable/disable anonymous checkout, so I hope that's set already.

The files are being uploaded currently, so it may take a while to be there. I imagine, most of what you want to see is inside src/map as those are the map-server changes.

also... I am not sure if I should upload a backup of the mysql databases, those include not just the item and mob dbs, but all player account information. The passwords are md5hashed, so it is slightly safe (using dictionary attacks you could find out what are the account passwords of other players).

If I were to upload the sql database, maybe I should change every account's password to the same silly thing for security reasons.
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by bulgogi on 13/5/2014, 23:57

Sharing player account information is a bad practice. =/ Be it in a partially edited state or not.

I believe out of respect for players's privacy all information related to players should be wiped. Essentially whomever gets the files for MouRO would be getting a blank user database. And honestly that is all they need to start their own MouRO from scratch.

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by jellopy on 14/5/2014, 00:02

A clean slate regarding the database is probably for the best, I agree.

Also skot I'm not sure if that's the proper link as it asked me to sign in, so I went to make an account... and now that I have an account I click it and it's like 'project not found' but I could have done something wrong too.

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Jammyhammy on 14/5/2014, 03:28

Skotlex wrote:Okay... bitbucket is also git... so I decided to look around and I ended up picking CloudForge.

The project's page is at https://app.cloudforge.com/projects/234981 Svn and Git links are shown there. I didn't find any way to enable/disable anonymous checkout, so I hope that's set already.

The files are being uploaded currently, so it may take a while to be there. I imagine, most of what you want to see is inside src/map as those are the map-server changes.

also... I am not sure if I should upload a backup of the mysql databases, those include not just the item and mob dbs, but all player account information. The passwords are md5hashed, so it is slightly safe (using dictionary attacks you could find out what are the account passwords of other players).

If I were to upload the sql database, maybe I should change every account's password to the same silly thing for security reasons.

Ohh, thanks! For the DB, maybe you probably should wipe out the player account information.
EDIT: Cloudforge is giving back an invalid project error for me.

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Skotlex on 14/5/2014, 20:31

I suppose I could add just sql files for the mob and item databases. I am not sure if I should actually delete all traces of the account data, I have everything stored in my computer for the time being.

Hmm, as for the svn site, perhaps if you try directly with svn? The address is https://mouro.svn.cloudforge.com/mouro

I just found how to enable anonymous access, so that should suffice to get that address to work.
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Jammyhammy on 15/5/2014, 02:18

Skotlex wrote:I suppose I could add just sql files for the mob and item databases. I am not sure if I should actually delete all traces of the account data, I have everything stored in my computer for the time being.

Hmm, as for the svn site, perhaps if you try directly with svn? The address is https://mouro.svn.cloudforge.com/mouro

I just found how to enable anonymous access, so that should suffice to get that address to work.

Thanks, that address allowed me to download it!

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by jellopy on 15/5/2014, 02:20

I was able to access that address with svn and am currently downloading the files. Thank you so much!

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Skotlex on 16/5/2014, 00:29

Okay, I added the sql files for the mob and item databases, they are at the sql-mouro/ directory at the root.
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by jellopy on 16/5/2014, 21:42

Awesome. Thank you again for doing this for us!!

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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Thror on 21/5/2014, 04:20

(In case you missed my post in Introductions, this is Macros speaking here.)

Pretty sad about all this. Many good times were had on MouRO. I actually celebrated like two birthdays on the server, with MouRO folks. Heck, one of my first dreamy childish ridiculous long range relationships was with a girl I met on MouRO (cut me some slack, that was back in 2006 when I was 16). On the other hand, all the comments on Ragnarok's outdateness are absolutely true. 

So many flashbacks right now. I feel like writing up a list of stuff I have experienced on MouRO.

Either way Skotlex, I would sincerely like to thank you for all the great experiences I had here. You are a great man, and I admire how long you have kept this running.

edit: (By the way, I have just found out that there is a MouRO wiki, and it has like two pages that actually have something written in them... the intro page, and the page about me. I find that hilarious.)
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Re: I believe it is time to close the server.

Post by Skotlex on 22/5/2014, 18:50

Well, one has to move on into the future, clinging to the past prevents us from doing that. All things must come to an end when their time is due. Perhaps RO was just outliving itself a bit too much here.

At least I am glad that there are pretty good games out there, perhaps not in the exact same vein, but it may only be a matter of time before something as good comes along. And as such, it isn't really a loss.

Also, memories. Yesterday I bumped into an old classmate from high-school, mentioned they had a WhatsApp group for all the people from my year/class... and I am like "why is there a need to keep in touch with people from over ten years ago? o_O" *shrugs* I am not sure I get it. Razz
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